aloha, ha, from ha, hawaii, merry xmas and happy honika, alhumduleelah, and so on. well, we had the m2m millenial gathering and it was a nice affair. lots of fruity options, brix meters floating around, spose this issue will have other reports and photos i'm sure.

still haven't kept up with the discussion or interacted much, gettin side tracked is easy in this homesteader lifestyle. was up to ocean view today cutting a water tank up and doin some road building. bob organized almost the whole m2m crew on the road project up there one day during the gathering.we (m-two-emers) had a nice visit in kapoho area at pangaia and chitta's place, checkin out their rainforest fruit farms.......

winter time bringin the usual increased flow of visitors, meeting new folks and old friends returning and this month ali is leaving. finally gettin some rain again after such a long period of drought.

got the green house closed in and startin to plant a few things, catelope, watermelon, peas, beans, tomato, etc. really curious to learn how to make primo soil for plants, the brix meter is a good guide and soil testing i wanna learn soon. slowly gettin more into sustainable living. doin yoga and tantra breathing exercises a couple days a week. gonna start using the barley grass powder for awhile and see how it feels. not sure but i think it would be good for me to live in ocean view at 5000 feet for awhile and check out the difference in energy. still wonder about elevation in relation to health. also humidity of air. well, i'ma startin ta ramble a bit so aloha and peace thru the happy holydays, forest

howdy m2mer folks, forest here at 4:43 am april 1st, happy spring, just heard the first bird of the mornin chirp. we had the first good rain (3.75 inches) in months or years here it seems so i'm happy for the plants that were sufferin and the food production scene. i haven't had any coconut water for a few months and startin to miss it, hope this rain is an indication of a change back to more balanced weather.

so what else is new? not too much. relationship thoughts on the mind a lot these days tryin to figure out how to create a natural relationship is still a big challenge in life, one of the most important health factors and also one of the most ellusive. i keep tryin to refine the patterns that seem to be limiting me, but got a ways to go. am planning to attend a level one course in tantra on oahu this month to see if i can get some more spirit into understanding the psychological mess most of us seem to be into relating to relationships, wish me luck or good karma i guess is a better term. i know i still overeat a lot when i feel stressed or confused about close friends and relationships.

speaking of overeating, saw a special on pbs tv about life extension experiments and saw a thing on rats in a lab that were all feed the same "balanced??" diet, the only difference being that some rats were allowed to eat as much as they wanted while others were restricted by about half. the ones on restricted diet lived almost twice as long. at this time anyway that doesn't offer much hope for me for havin a long life.

i been preoccupied being a car mechanic lately speakin of "carma". tryin out a car partnership with female friend stephanie since she needs transportation to pursue job opportunities until things are more settled with her finances. so i been rebuilding and recycling an '86 toyota truck. things rust bad here due to salty air so i am spending a lotta time tryin to get the rust in check.

we had a spring equinox pot luck party on the land here a few days ago to welcome in spring, held outdoors under greenhouse roof, nice party, played a little music and had a sweat later in eve, not enough raw food in my mind tho, most neighbors including me it seems are forgetting about the several natural health factors it will take to extend life, funny how it seems we forget with business as usual still having such a strong influence due in part to lack of support for refinements and role models. i will keep tryin, wish i could talk some of ya'll into gettin this consensus farm family thing more support and organization.

greenhouse project slow but movin, got the roof on so am over the hard part, i get so easily distracted with so many projects looming overhead all the time, but every now and then i get one done.

M2M MILLENIAL BASH: ????? still wonderin if it is goin to happen? haven't had any volunteers yet to my knowledge volunteer to help me organize it so am in doubt about it. still think it sounds like a good idea and might facilitate some of us lookin into a natural health coopertive land thing. am behind on readin some of the past m2ms so if someone volunteered and i didn't see it let me know and i will wake up and start gettin more serious.

OPTIONAL TOPIC: what one food would we choose? i think it's a bit too hypothetical a question really, but the first thought that came to mind was mangos, then again i suspect it would have limitations unless the soil was so perfect that it might provide more than we might think. another food that came to mind was wheatgrass or spirolina or some green algae type thing, but to be honest i don't think one food would be very optimal. variety is more than just the spice of life, me thinks it represents life itself. maybe raw human would work for the instincto types but that may develop other problems.

BERNARR ZOVLUCK: you say anaerobic exercise is superior to aerobic exercise. i think both are equally important and represent a balance in overall physical wholism. many of the well known musclemen and strong men died early on in life perhaps partly because they lacked the endurance that aerobic exercise offers. they get so hung up on big muscles they forget the value of the wiry endurance physique. most of the athletes in the triathilon event here in hawaii are slender but strong wiry individuals who in my mind are more healthy and will live longer that the ones who overfocus on building muscle alone. the aerobic oxygen intake in the body is a very important factor in not only physical health but spiritual pranayama health as well. fine to go ahead and build muscle and strength anaerobically but don't forget to balance by aerobically building strong lungs and heart and spirit for the endurance it will take to figure out how to live a natural healthy long life. perhaps living in the los angles area you are hesitant to do aerobic exercise for good reason, the air is badly polluted, just be carefull to not overrationalize that aerobics are less important than anaerobics. you say we should exercise as often and as frequently as we can, till failure. the till failure comment to me is unhealthy, we should exercise in all ways enough to naturally achieve our food and shelter, etc. requirements to live a normal natural life. judging from some of yer comments i would guess like me you overeat too much heavy food and then get on a guilt trip with yerself about exercising till "failure" which in my mind sounds like death. you may not be perfectly beautiful but i love you anyway to one degree or another. everything is beautiful in it's own way, thanks for reminding me.

aloha m2mers hope ya'll are feelin well these days. I'm in better than average spirits since winter always brings winter travelers and a bit more social balance for the hermit energy that can be predominant sometimes in the summer. Because of the influx in visitors i may be a bit lax in responding for awhile, i'm already behind in reading this months issue. Bob Avery was visiting this month here, it was nice to share ideas and talk story in person and visit other parts of island and other raw fooders. i think Bob enjoyed the diversity of exotic foods we have on this island and Bob had better than average luck in finding lots of variety.

RADIATION: While it's fresh in my mind i would like to bring up the subject of radiation in our lives. A friend showed up a couple days and brought with him a small battery operated radiation detector. I had suspicions of the laptop computer i have as eminating some kind of energy and sure enough the little beeper went off all around the computer up to about one foot away. i also tested my small black and white 12 volt tv and it radiated to my surprise about a 6-8 foot diameter. another surprise was my 12 volt flouresant lite bulbs. does anyone else have any info on how dangerous this radiation is and how to protect or minimize its effect. Since the detector did not have a meter i also wonder how much of this type radiation is safe or at what degree it becomes a health hazard.

KEN SHAPIRO: in regards to raw foods being calorically insufficient, i don't think that's possible, since cooking food does not increase calories. i think the reason some people loose weight on all raw can be due to the types of foods they eat and the combinations. I have met a lotta raw fooders who are skinny and i think it is because they either do not get enough starchy foods or because they consume large amounts of nuts or avacado or oily foods that inhibit or prevent water soluable nutrients from flowing freely thru the system. Oil clogs up water flow in large quantities, even the healthy varieties. A lotta raw fooders may be skinny due to more frequent eating of mixed combinations in large quantities to the point where the digestive system gets so overworked and confused that it no longer fully digests the food properly. i also feel that the ideal raw food diet would be considerably less than what most people eat. People who do not balance all the natural health factors in their life and focus mainly on food as many raw fooders do may be too orally focused and need to check out the reason for that which i think is related to poor communications, childhood traumas, and social imbalances or peeking order stress factors.

BOB WYNMAN: well i'm slowly tuning into the magnetic radiation part of natural health and am listening closely to your comments on the subject. i also am curious if you are familiar with the brand name "hydro floss" and if you think it is a good product or if there is another more better water flosser you would recomend. in relation to your comments last issue on absorbing nutrients thru skin, for what it's worth, years ago i went to a seminar on herbalogy by a famous herbaligist named Dr. Christopher. In the lecture he claimed to know of a case of a man so disabled with throat cancer that he was unable to take food thru the mouth and was supposedly keep alive for years by massaging his whole body daily with raw virgin olive oil. wild story, but maybe somethin to it. have you heard anything about the miraculous healing properties of topical L-ascorbic acid on skin problems? in relation to your critique of democracy and my promotion of consensus, yes i agree our current US govt is not totally by the people but perhaps most are not responsible enough to function without a big brother, aren't we more free and independant than any other form of existing govt., or time, plus there is still the 100% by the people approach allowed within the US called consensus decision making whenever we are ready. what i was tryin to say was that if someone is critical of traditional politics but unaware or uninterested in an evolved form, then its like dwelling on the problem while overlooking the solutions. Non-profit org. together with consensus has been available in the US for years and still people grumble and complain as i did until i discovered the options exist. in relation to your question about polarity, what i have been tryin to say is that most people spend their whole life in a world of polar oppisites like right and wrong, us and them, etc. while overlooking a transcendant reality on the earth plane that allows polarity to be reduced or altogether eliminated. As long as we live in a world of right and wrong, we will always be frustrated by that which we are against or that which is treating us unfairly while perhaps our limited knowledge and wisdom is the real culprit. i liked some of your comments to charlie donham last issue on his critique on mlm. if i had a nickel for every time you promoted nikken in m2m, i could retire before joining. ;-) in reference to your comments on hydroponics, don't forget that most dirt grown organics are adulterated by WoMan in the process. i see potential food in the earth plants growing in dirt, in water, and in air, and would consider eating any if the environment seemed reasonably balanced and organic. interesting to note that none will grow without water, maybe all plants are already hydrponic mixed in with other mediums.

Bernarr Zovluck: Like you, i am very serious about healing sometimes, but that doesn't prevent me from humor, many health practitioners use humor or levity as a technique for healing, especially with overserious people. You say humor is inappropriate for people in serious condition, but i say it depends on the individual and the situation, if they are overly serious, lack of humor or levity may be a major problem with their health. You say that humor is a part of your everyday life, but like kendall i do not notice much humor in your dialog in m2m. Is m2m such a serious health publication that it is separate from your daily life of humor? Excuse me if i'm being too serious. :-) I hope if and when i die, there is a smile on my face. I did find the christmas carol you sent me a few years ago somewhat humorous.

BOB AVERY: thanks for the info on CaPNaK balance, i will check it out, i noticed in my hair analysis that some of it was out of balance and wasn't sure how to approach a balance, looks like this guy has some clues to the process. In reference to your accident proneness, i did notice when you were here that your auto driving a few times seemed a bit risky to me. I didn't say anything cause i assumed anyone driving as long as you would already have awareness of the situation. in relation to your teeth, one thing to keep in mind is that our childhood eating habits may have permanently affected our adult dental situation. Also note that overconsuming raw foods may affect our dental condition along with eating dried fruits which have concentrated acidic sugars. I am sure there are other hidden factors related that are possibly equally crucial.

in regards to finding kindred spirits on a kibbutz in Israel, that may be remotely possible in one out of a thousand since i have heard most run on some form of hierarchy, tho one visitor here once had heard of a consensus one, but i never did get in contact. The unrest in the middle east does not give much incentive to travel there at this time. in regards to your comments on cayenne to harrold last issue i would like to comment that i have seen in nature birds and other animals and insects eating cayenne. i know we are different than these creatures but maybe not enough to dismiss it as a possible food, maybe as a balancing agent more than a staple. i liked and agreed with yer comments to ward last issue. ward seems to not mind spending hours of research to support his theory, make a big splash and then later make excuses to quickly leave the debate based on the asumption that nobody understands or cares when probably at least part of the time he's the one who doesn't want to understand or consider the other opinion or spend one tenth the time researching or meditating on the other point of view. i say meditating because the intuition is where i think he might seek some balance.

KENDALL BLACK: good luck(if there is such a thing) on your new/old relationship. How about hawaii for the m2m gathering, we have a large following and a large variety of exotic foods. I realize it's not very centrally located tho, so just a thought. in relation to moving huge stones by primitive man, don't forget that those small nations fought a lot amongst each other and no doubt had captured enemies do all the dirty work like slaves, history is full of such accounts, like the jews in egypt building the pyramids. i agree there may have been intervention by aliens, i just don't see enough tangible evidence to prove it one way or another. in regards to homosexuality in animals, don't be too quick to conclude. i have personnally seen while hunting deer years ago, two horney male deer mounting each other in a field. I don't think they actually had anal intercourse tho, but then again a lotta human homosexuals don't either. I have also seen nature shows on tv which indicate strange sexual behavior like hyena which both male and female sexes have penises and have very energetic playfull sexual activity amongst the whole clan. Also the bonobo chimps have a very liberated aproach to sex and use it to dissapate agressive behavior in the clan. i remember hearing or reading that many primitive cultures like native americans accepted homosexuality in their culture and that some were almost elevated to shaman positions because they had enhanced intuitive capabilities. Back to mega stone moving, i think the reason primative cultures put so much energy into it was to impress their own people and their neighbors for two reasons: one to make them think their religion was more powerful and the other to intimidate their neighbors into thinking they were superhuman and powerfull militarily.

MARY LOUISE BURT: Your yoga room sounds like a good addition and centering device, i have a similar room here. i have found yoga has many many advantages for body, mind, and spirit. Liked yer pesticide inquiry psychology, good thinking.

GREGORY COLALILLO: In regards to reintroducing bacteria after doing antibiotics, a few suggestions. one would be to consider buying some form of acidophilis tablets which come in many styles these days to accomodate almost any diet preference. a more natural approach might be to make seed yogurt, or fermented vegetables or sour kraut, or fermented fruit juices or viktoras kulvinskis style rejuvelac. i agree with what yer sayin about posture and health. interesting comments on left-right brain.

CHARLIE DONHAM: liked yer ageing christmas joke. don't totally give up on slowing down time with age, every now and then i sense a bit of that possiblilty but not much, however i heard tales of yogis in caves for years in some form of suspended animation. once saw on 60 minutes a modern yogi put in a clear plexiglass cube about 3 feet in dimension and then a lid put on and then the cube was submerged in a swimming pool and thru out the one hour show they keep checking back on the guy underwater and then at the end of the show took him out and opened the box and he popped out in a rather dramatic and amazing end, somehow i think he at least partially suspended time. i liked yer white house joke. I used to think like you that all humor is poking fun of others and it is mostly true i guess, but i think we can go beyond that a bit by considering diplomacy factors and i sense there is a form of humor that is beyond hurting others, i'm still tryin to figure out exactly how it operates, somethin to do with intuition and unified thinking. good point on the dairy issue.

LEO DUERSON: i was told that haole in hawaiian meant foreigner, your comments concerning hawaiians are pretty accurate. i'm hoping someday the US will give hawaii back it's sovereignty and that that will help chill out the" kill a haole day" mentality. Your doubts of coopertive consensus may apply to you and most of the masses, but concensus already exists in small amounts all over the world. Hewlitt Packard electronics, Quakers, green party, food coops, numerous co-housing and land trust communities to mention just a few. I admire your ability to relax and breathe in a critical health crisis, i agree that it is an important part of being prepared, whether for death or rejuvenation. Still i intuitively sense Bernarr is not as much an expert as you or he believe and that his simple easy approach to healing is either oversimplied or needs more balancing factors to be added, perhaps that's the same for all of us and that's why we're here doing the m2m thing.

DAVE ESCHAN: your comments to bob a. on the food combining theories being outdated does't seem correct in my limited experience. Tho sometimes i find exceptions to the general rules, in general i have found them to be helpful. However, the best food combining eaten duing stressfull times can cause serious indigestion leading one to think that food combining is irrelevant or incorrect.

well folks, the term paper's due and i didn't quite make it to the end, so i'll have to send the rest next time..........may we all spread natural wellness........and swimm together in a big bowl of whirrled peas(raw of course) :-).........forest

Aloha M2Mer's, well it's only 4 days till due date and i'm just starting this thing, been getting sidetracked a bit these days, but here goes, maybe i'll get a little into it.

Been into computer world a bit searching for answers and solutions and potential partners to this eccentric earth re-leaf project. Met a guy yesterday who makes his own paper and believe it or not it is edible. Made with carrot and beet pulp and psyillium seed and flavored inks. his email address is eatmywords, pretty neat idea huh?

SUSAN MAZZOCCO: Thanks for the "Frost-ty Forest poem(born and raised in northern wisconsim, where the winds hit heavy on the border line, i really appreciate your intuitive thoughts and energy, seems so rare these days in our serious money based world. Your cartoons this issue say it all, Health is Wealth, you are such a creative thinker.

THIS MONTHS TOPIC: i think the idea of a m2m millenium gathering sounds fun and exciting tho i'm not sure i could make it due to expenses and traveling in unnatural jets to get there. course if ya'll come to Hawaii i would be glad to put lots of energy into helping make it a success. in any event if it does happen, perhaps someone could make a video documentary to help get the message out and to share with those who couldn't make it.

RENE BERESFORD: Liked yer opening story about the man who kept tryin, that really fits the raw food people well, it's not a matter of good or bad, seems to me it's a matter of efforts directed toward reducing limitations, and is an eternal ongoing process of chipping away at the degrees. Thanks for joining our group here, you sound very balanced and clear about yourself and i look forward to hearing more about your fruitarian ideal which i also believe in and practise to one degree or another.

KENDAL BLACK: You don't have to be a late-nite owl to hear Art Bell. In most areas of US he starts around 8pm and goes till 2-4 am. if you listen for the early portion you can get part anyway and for those with real audio on computer you can listen anytime to old programs off his website where they are archived. In relation to your comments on Y2K i think it may be wise to be prepared whether physically or spiritually. i would be curious to have been to the preparedness expo you attended. am looking for companies that sell organic foods packed for long shelf life, did you encounter any of that at the expo? Did anyone there sell garden seeds packed for long shelf life, i'm still looking for that? is there any literature available on what happened at the expo? Your question related to Vonderplanitz, "who wants to play Russian roulette with the body?", don't we all do that to one degree or another and hasn't it gotten us to a better understanding despite the risks? Perhaps it's more a matter of what degree of risk to take, rather than to risk of not to risk. All adventure requires some risk. Also a benificial parasite might be the acidophilus bacteria that live in our colon, there may be others. Somewhere i read that viruses are alien intelligences entering our body to examine how naturally we are living. :-) i agree with some of what you said about eskimos, but the part about them living a beast like existance is a little "cold hearted" : ) i have read accounts about eskimos that indicate that they were highly intelligent, loving, and had to be in order to survive the conditions they lived in. i do agree with your idea that high meat and fat diet in a warm climate is questionable to say the least.

MARY LOUISE BURT: enjoyed your coments, sounds like yer HOT on the trail to optimum health. That stuff about EFA AND HGH was interesting. Stephen's book sounds pretty right on to me. One thought on eating coconut meat is i eat the young jelly meat or thin rubber meat stage rather than later rubbermeat or mature hardmeat. the more mature the harder to digest in my opinion. i believe fat is essential but probably in rather small easy to digest quantities. his idea of eating nuts with apricots or raisons sounds like a poor combination to me tho i know it is popular with many raw fooders. i have limited experience but i have read that nuts are better combined with juicy acidic type fruits like orange, grapefruit, pomelo, lilikoi, etc.

CHARLIE DONHAM: thanks for the reminder to give and get tickled often, hasn't happened to me in years, except heart tickling jokes like the ones you send sometimes. :-) and the cartoon Susan sent. Good thoughts on change etc. too, a never ending process, there's a new/old solution to end all this pollution and it's called evolution.

DAVE ESCHAN: enjoyed yer interesting dialog. What is a 24 hour urine test and how much does it cost and can i do it myself or do i send it in? Bob Avery sent me an article that recomends cilantro as a natural substitute for chelation therapy.

SUSAN MAZZOCCO: Liked poem to Nancy Reed last issue about blessings and peace, heres to you, a friend we hold so dear. A poet's prayer and chorus, is a healing blessing for us........ into the musical starstreams floats a friend ship in heartsong, dancing on the waters of the ocean of emotion.....mahalo.........did you draw and author those cartoons, they look professional but have your downhome spirit? was that phrase in one about armpits, "success with exorcism or success with exercis-em?" :-)

DEBBIE NELSON: Welcome to m2m, wow 22 cats, reminds me of an old rainbow dude who used to have a love 22 philosophy and gave away and sold his handmade 22 dollar bills....ok i know i'm rambling. Try eating lots of cilantro for heavy metal detox, and sweat baths, and find out where that mercury is coming in from if you haven't already, there may be more than one source. What is a UAV machine? Gold fillings range in quality from very poor with low grade mix of other metals to rather high quality gold and platinum only. percentage of gold is a crucial factor. all gold fillings are mixed metals and will give some degree of electrical impulse. Hey Bob W. does that sound close to accurate?

AUDREY NEWCOMB: Liked yer comments to Bob A. last issue related to feminism, right on. I know i'm an oddball but i get turned on by barefoot country women dressed in grubby clothes with sweat dripping from their brow in the garden, only saw that type fashion show once or twice in life but it sure beats the high society high heeled unnatural women of the modern age. Find me a down home country woman and i'll find a way to stay home and change diapers and nurture mother and child and land. It may not produce a substantial income(tho home businesses are easier with computer) but it will produce a substantial quality of life and relationship and a buildup of natural social security related to food, shelter, etc. Real social security comes from living spiritually close to nature seeking knowledge and wisdom and self-sufficiency and friends who do the same. When it reaches beyond nuclear family limitations, into consensus extended family, then the real "social" security begins that goes way beyond what any old age bank account could provide. In truth there is no social security in money, it's mostly a nuerotic illusion that somehow the whole world has "bought" into. What happens if the system, because of it's karma buildup against nature fails, and we find ourselves surrounded by people like ourselves who hold money more dearly than friendship? That's the path the modern world is headed down, i pray that some of us some day take natural health beyond the health food store to the coop consensus health food farm, you seem to be a good role model, thanks again.

TO ALL THE REST: well, looks like i won't quite get to respond to all, i tried but couldn't quite make it to finish in time, but will continue here where i left off next issue, best of health till then.

the rest of this text is perhaps repititious for some here at m2m but i want to restate the case for natural life and health in it's wholistic entirety and familiarize folks here at m2m how each one of us may work/play together at achieving optimum health as a coopertive organized family. Dispite my owm limited success at achieving these goals, i am still optimistic that there is a practical formula available to initiate and adapt to for anyone who is interested.

FOREST WRITES FROM NAALEHU:

WARD NICHOLSON: I think your opening statement to me last issue impying that i do not consider science as a crucial part of determining how nature operates is very far from the truth. If you re-read my comments to you from previous issue you will note that i do give credit to science for it's part of investigation, i even admitted that i tend to be out of balance "a bit" with it in relation to intuition. Your argument then goes on to your usual I'm right and he's wrong polarity approach to debate. You are correct, the rules have changed regarding what approach to use when contributing here, and went on and on proving it. What puzzles me is that i sincerely feel i made some good points regarding your lopsided approach to natural life investigation, just as i tend to emphasize intuition a bit too much, I feel you emphasize practical science a bit too much while putting intuition in the back seat. No matter how thorough ones scientific investigation into anything is, if it lacks intuition or other side brain balance, then it may be subject to error, just as someone focused on intuition may get valuable info but lack the practical science to balance it out. Your letter goes on to imply that peole don't appreciate you for your efforts, please note that somewhere in my previous response to you that i did acknowledge your efforts to expose a cheat, and i do appreciate it. My main point in our friendship is not to prove i'm right and your wrong but to challenge a more wholistic approach in our investigations. In response to your closing personal comment(which felt directed mainly at me) i would counter "We can't have an open mind, wihtout an open heart and or intuition." I also feel i made some good points both scientifically and intuitively regarding your evolution verses creationism debate which you completely ignored in your response to me.

BERNARR ZOVLUCK: Your comment to me last issue saying, "I do not need a utopia in which to live." seems rather a way of avoiding the point i was trying to make. Your odd health habits and comments to others in relation to health indicate to me that you are very "utopian" in your approach to natural health. If we need a raw food utopian environment inside us to reach optimum health, how can we ignore the most basic natural ingredient for survival, clean air. It's one thing to admit to compromise our ideals, i do it all the time, but to deny that we compromise is the beginnings of closemindedness, and a sure form of mental disease. Have you reached a level of refinement that has no room for improvement?

MARTHA ASH: What you call Ring Dings i thought were called Ding Dongs. Are they the same or different brands? This clearification is very important to natural health. : ) ........glad you cleared things up a bit with your stepdaughter.

BOB AVERY: Back to the hydroponic issue, there are lots of fresh water plants that grow in water that taste good like spirolina, water chesnuts, cattails, etc. i could go on and on. Also seaweed grown in salt water can taste good. The fact that once you had hydroponic food and it didn't taste good may be due to the type of chemicals used and the balance. I believe it is possibe to grow food hydroponically that could equal land food in nutrition and taste. I haven't done that yet, but have an open mind to the possibility.

KENDALL BLACK: I agree, life is full of compromises, i just don't want to ever get so comfortable in a compromise that i forget to keep looking at ways to reduce it.

LEO DUERSON: As far as i know, the el nino phenomena here is ending now, whether Maui or Molikii was affected in the same way as here, i'm not sure but i suspect it was affected in some way.

HAROLD HOLLISTER: Enjoyed your comments on truth and cayenne. I have seen animals in the wild eating cayenne. It makes a good foot warmer if sprinked in small amounts in the socks.

SUSAN MAZZOCCO: Wow, yer opening statement last issue sher took me on a magical mystery tour roller coaster ride thru some of your inner child or whatever as does much of your dialog. It's not a problem with me but i bet some of us get lost in space now and then. The humor factor makes the decipher factor worth the effort. Anyway, did you really notice a difference in health related to the change in elevation? It is something i have been puzzeling over for years, with no definitive conclusion yet. Ya, your dialog reminds me of what i might call natural intuitive wanderings with surprises along the way. Got yer letter with the pretty colorful pictures i will decorate with somewhere, mahalo mucho......and now on to more of: What i did on my summer vacation : ) .......I do have trouble with some of Krishnamurti's teachings. Too much of the teacher authority vibe sometimes with all those you, you, you projection polarity dialogs. Gee Susan i would like to go on with this dialog but it is 9:15PM on Oct 1, so i better hustle this off to make it on time.

TO ALL: I regret that i did not even read this last issue yet and am only responding to those who responded to me last issue. The reason for this change is the recent purchase of a used laptop which has been one of the biggest changes in my life for some time. I'm sure a lot of naturals out there will question my judgement as i have done also, but despite the doubts i am diving head first into cyberspace as a last ditch attempt to find a needle in a haystack type land trust partner or partners that may be interested in the somewhat eccentric approach i take to natural health. Wish me luck or good karma is a better way of saying it, but rather than wish me good karma, join the fun and help me get the kinks out of establishing a natural wellness consensus land trust and wellness sanctuary, i really can't do it alone, it's a group effort and that's what it will take to do it most effectively. Its possible that i may start to fade away from the m2m forum in the future, not because i don't value it as a messenger but because other messengers are starting to pull the attention. I hope i can hold down everything, if not i may drop in and out. I feel i have stated a case for a practical way to pursue natural health into a consensus spiritual relm. I have all this life found limited support for these ideals in action, despite the fact that i get unlimited support in theory or mentally. I will no doubt die trying or have the good karma of meeting someone or ones that will join in the process and help our dreams become reality. If i fade away, feel free to contact me anyway in person or email or snailmail. Mahalo and aloha........forest for earth re-leaf.......

ALOHA,HA FROM HA,HAWAII, i'm back again, after a few adventures, trust ya'll are experiencing natural wellness. i have been in cyberspace meeting people and checking out various discussion groups. it feels refreshing to be finding eccentric weirdos like the self to share ideas and experiences with especially since our food coop closed a few years ago and left me isolated without much of a support group. got involved in the polyfidelity email chat group, an interesting concept but not too many healthy examples out there yet to study, mostly seems like pleasure seeking yuppie types living somewhat traditional co-dependancy lifestyles. my interest in polyamory is mostly related to narural spiritual instincts i have relating to the evolution of the nuclear family. i didn't stay there too long before i realized i didn't fit in too much. where do i fit in is a big question, but i think i'm chipping away at it a bit. i also checked out the raw food email chat group on the net and spent considerable time there discussing wellness issues. it was a very humbling experience since there is such a wide range of eccentric viewpoints, much like the m2m. it's good tho to have differing views to keep the ego in check a bit. ran into an old m2mer kirt nieft who has appointed himself as the group cynic (that is my term not his). anyway, if you can handle all the wide range of opinions without gettin totally confused this site has some valualble info comin thru now and then. i checked out tantra.com another web site devoted to spiritual sexuality and felt a bit more at home there altho there is no discussion group. they do have a personal ad section where men and women can post ads looking for partners so i thought what the heck, described the self as a country hermit type struggling to start consensus extended family in nature, haven't kissed a girl in about 10 years, used to practice no ejaculation tantra but way outta practice. didn't really expect much response to my eccentric ad so was a bit surprised that within a few days i got a response from a woman in austin texas with an opening email asking, "what do you need from me?" that response initialy turned me off but being a lonely hermit i thought well what the heck and responded, "the beatles said all we need is love and i tend to agree, but also being into self-sufficiency i perhaps should say i need nothing, and finally said what i really need is consensus friendship without role playing and ownership interested in forming an extended family in nature. anyway, that began a very long email relationship with a woman who has slowly(450 emails later) developed into my best friend. exploring loving friendship on the net is like meeting someone from the inside out, we didn't share photos until after about 200 emails back and forth. if someone had told me this would happen the way it did i probably would have not believed it. our lifestyles are radically different and for many emails i kept trying to scare her away with my eccentric ideas and lifestyle but she seemed sincerely interested in what i was up to. i played along with the whole thing never thinkin much would come of it other than a pen pal type friendship, so i was a bit suprised after 250 messages back and forth when she asked how i felt about her coming here for two weeks for her vacation. to be honest i was scared. anyway, to make a long story short, she came here and we had a very good time together combining intimate time together with social consensus family experiment time. this winter also brought many other health and consensus oriented family type visitors here at the same time, so for about a month or two it looked like earth re-leaf was waking up into something more than an eccentric hermit spoutin off. i actually started to develop a feeling of wellbeing i haven't felt for a long time and i think it relates to the spirit of family. consensus family is so important to nataural wellness that i will spend as many lives as it takes to create it. so now that summer is here and all the visitors are back home again i am back to the hermit mode again. it looks like the tantra friend has decided to quit her job as an investment specialist working for Eatna and return here in a few months and support me in creating a natural living consensus extended family. we are both very interested in the tantra experience and she left a book with me(i highly recomend) called "the jewel of the lotus", a book on tantra written very simply and with a step by step approach that any idiot could follow and succeed at, (i hope that includes me) and one does not even need a partner to succeed tho it may take longer without one. i am thrilled but some part of me is still sayin it can't be true, in any event it certainly did spark up some new found hope for me and the future and the ideals i am tryin to implement. another interesting email chat group i joined is called eco-balance, a chat group exploring ecology issues, community ideals, and eco-village concepts. i have met some interesting people there and shared many ideas related to the families of the future. it looks like some of these folks i will meet in hawaii over time. i also recommend a website on intentional communities where i have postings and contacts. there is a wide range of new age community attempts out there, something for everyone no matter what yer eccentric preferences may be, and i encourage anyone interested in optimum wellness to take a serious look at how important consensus family is to our health, at least as important as food and for some of us perhaps more important. it appears to me much of our overeating suicidal bingeing is due to pecking order hierarchical social communication conditioning and unless we refine the family structure and how we communicate within ist we may die overeating the healthiest natural raw food.
MILLENNIAL BASH: part of why i am back here is to talk about the proposed m2m bash that has been tenetively planned for october 2000. since i have been outta the loop for the last few issues it came as a bit of a surprise when i found out ya'll opted for hawaii as a possible place, and now that i know, i am willing to go along with it provided we can plan and coordinate it as a group effort. i would be willing to be part of the planning process provided there is at least one other serious planner involved with me. perhaps someone who could come a little early and help plan and organize things with me. or if coming early is difficult at least someone to help coordinate the planning and contacting etc. i have a small one acre homestead here which could accomadate about 6-10 people sleeping here. it is rustic but clean with no flush toilet or refrigerator. 6 one room small sleeping shelters with a larger community house. suggested minimum donation for stay in a one room shelter here is $3/day/individual, bedding provided for an extra small fee. camping arrangements here suggested donation $2/day. i have a couple raw food type neighbors who could accomadate a few others. there are bed and breakfast places within 2-5 miles of here with more sophisticated arrangements available. some of the raw food neighbors may be willing to help organize and make a success of it. we could plan excursions out and about and create a fun experience, especially for those who have not been here before, it is a very interesting and unique place with a large number of rather discrete or invisible raw fooder types. depending on the amount of energy necessary to organize and plan and the number of people willing to help there may be a small donation fee for organizing and planning tho under ideal situation that could be minimal. we could arrange to have guest speakers, that may wish to charge extra for their time. been doin a little work on the other piece of property i have at 5000 foot elevation. it is like swiss cheese up there with lava tubes all over the place, a spelunker's paradise. i been landscaping a caved in lava tube area which is like a sunken courtyard, have built a small circular stone age type stone house part way down in the courtyard and am terracing and scultping the place into a natural disneyland kinda place. it is a great place for fasting and meditating. i also am slowly beginning to plant mainland temperate fruit trees up there to give a wider range of foods available. i like the air up there, and feel more energetic there at midday than down here at 800 feet. the big challenge up there is water, but i have a big catchment area i am planning to develop over time so i can gravity feed the water to plants.
LISA ZIEMANN: welcome to the m2m. your introduction sounded clear and interesting. you seem to be on a good path and have a good idea of what to do. best wishes in health and your new marriage.
BOB AVERY: hi bob, in relation to putting m2m on the internet you may consider offering people an option of sending the paper or sending the email version if that seems feasible. guess i might still like the paper copy for records etc., but some may not and that could save paper. could also offer it for less money perhaps and draw in a larger audience. i had my second hair analysis done not too long ago, still high in lead and aluminum not to mention outta balance in many other less toxic ones. any houses over 50 years old may have lead in the paint, watch out when tearing out or recycling old lumber, i think that is where i got some of the lead. still can't figure out where the aluminum came from. so i bought a pound of dried organic cilantro and am using a couple teaspoons daily, not too instincto, can't hardly stand the taste. saw yer note to rex, why did you and he get kicked off that list, if anyone should be booted it is kirt nieft, is he still on? i heard the raw food list got taken off the raw times website due to unfriendlyness, is that true? L-
ASCORBIC ACID: while i'm thinkin of it, anyone know anything about the healing properties of L-ascorbic acid when applied topically to skin, heard it is supposed to revitalize skin. anyone know of fruits or veges that are high in it? anyone ever try such a thing? i think i asked before but noone answered.
KENDALL BLACK: hi, enjoyed reading yer message, interesting about malkmus and barley green. you say there is nothing else like it sharing the ecclectic viewpoint, what about art bell on am radio? he gets a pretty diverse buncha ecclectic weirdos.
LEO DUERSON: i had a similar reaction a few years ago when i tried goat yogurt that a neighbor was making, despite it's natural organic quality and fermentation it still was very mucus forming and made my throat feel scratchy. in a message to veronika last issue you said " i very much want the love and approval of others, and i may be somewhat unhappy if i don't get it---it is not a life and death situation if i don't get it." i hear what yer sayin here but i think living without love is very much a life and death situation, it's just a slow death like cigarette smoking over time the energy slowly gives in to death. i can't prove it but i think love is more essential to health than food, it's just more abstract an ingredient and therefore difficult to scientifically monitor. for what it's worth, i live in hawaii and have had lots of opportunities to experiment with coconut oil or fat and observe others doing the same. my general conclusion is that it is not very healthy especially in the tropics. it may be better than other processed oils or in very small amounts in cold weather areas but in general i feel it has limitations. small amouts of raw avacado seem to be easier to digest due to their more water soluable oils. even too much avacado has killed raw food friends of mine. we have been programmed to use food as a substitute for love and need a stick to the ribs effect to pretend it's working. healthy foods don't stick and will quickly give us this wirey healthy but empty feeling that only love can truly fill, without the love we go back to the heavier sticky foods, at least that has been my experience and observation.
DAVE ESCHAN: i enjoyed reading yer message last month, it had a cheerful helpful ring to it.
REX HARRILL: hey rex, welcome to m2m, i been gone for awhile, glad we have the likes of you to keep us well informed. i read yer note on Frog, we have a few characters like him in hawaii with the common law and soveriegnty movement. i joined in for a few years until i realized most of the support group were angry alchoholics. i do believe in what yer sayin tho but it takes a lotta study and effort to get there, thanks for reminding me of how important it is to optimum health. i liked yer cynical humor of government control and law but i think even tho america has incredible corruption in high places and bankers seem determined to fund eco-destruction, somehow i think we are tryin as a government and as illiterate individuals to do the best we can for the stage of consciousness that we have thus far achieved. despite our limitations today what other period in his-story was more free, and if there was one here and there, how would it have faired with increasing population nearby coming in? it's a matter of degrees for each country and each individual thruout the world, i'm glad i grew up in america and had a limited but better education than most third worlders. i'm glad i don't live in saudi arabia where my best friend is from. i'm glad that the intuition says life is spiritual and that no matter how bad it gets the polar oppisite good is always nearby and that even trancendance of polarity is not much further away and that probably secret spiritual societies exist on the earth to help guide us thru our karmic(good vs evil) lessons.
HAROLD HOLLISTER: hey harold, i liked yer doggy story, pretty entertaining, sounds like it might make a good sit-com or somethin. ringin in the ears can have positive as well as negative influences. years ago i started experiencing that in a sleep state. it would get so loud i thought it would damage the ears and out of fear of that i would often wake up and the sound was gone. anyway one time i read a book on spiritual practices in the east and in it they described the same type sound and said it was a preliminary reaction to changing vibrational brain wave rates. they said it was ok to let it go and not to fear, so one nite i let er rip and just about when i thought my cranium was gonna shatter like crystol there was a loud pop and then i found the self floating above the bed. i found it fascinating and tried to gain some control of the experience but never was able to after hundreds of nites finding myself floating above the bed. towards the end of those experiences happening in my life on a regular basis i noticed one nite while floating above the bed a round luminous ring about the size of a frisbie, and being fascinated by the new development i couldn't resist trying to grab onto it since it was only a foot or two away. as soon as i touched the ring with my hand i was wisked away thru the walls of the house and could see the snowy landscape of the fields and forests passing by at about 50 feet below at a fairly fast clip. the strangeness of it all put fear in the head and i woke up. i was in a relationship at the time and it dissolved and so did the frequency(almost nitely) of those dreams until now they are very rare and i can not seem to get past the buzzing to lift off when it does happen.
SUSAN MAZZOCCO: gee what nationality is yer last name derived from, never heard that name before. as usual i enjoy yer witty punny humor tho i suspect only half of it makes it to the funny bone(or any bone for that matter) intact. any chance you could provide some of us denser, less raw folks with a deciphered version of yer m2m "fast forward" ramblings for a small fee? :-) yer dissertation on dates was extra special for me since my best friend is ali from saudi arabia, and for 4 years we made annual pilgrimages to north end of island for them and i learned many tricks from ali about them. watch out for the thorns, next to cat's claw, date trees gotta be one of the most wicked thorny plants. there is a trick to removing thorns each year to make harvesting a breeze. liked yer lovestrings poem. in the last issue under forest greenwald you elude to something i am unclear about, if it's important to you would you care to restate the question or statement in laymans terms, it somehow went over my head. perhaps i'm no better by suggesting you read between the lines, are we tryin to hide from each other or beat around the bush or somethin? :-)
DEBBIE NELSON: you might wanna put a double blind effect on the muscle testing so as not to let yer psychological pre-judgement of the item come into play. wrap the foods in equal size packages and/or have a friend hand them to you blindfolded so you don't know what you are testing. test several foods (plus and minus) and see how reliable or accurate the test feels.
AUDREY NEWCOMB: enjoyed reading yer brief but interesting news last issue, happy gardening....
GRACE STERN SWANSON: ejoyed reading yer cheerful message last issue and the poem at the end entered the heart with special feelings.
HIMAN RITES:the information below was taken off the eco-balance website which i have been involved in for a few months. it is a bit off topic of raw foods but definately fits into the natural health arena, hope ya'll find some inspiration in it. well, that about wraps up my two cents worth for this issue, wishin wellness for ya'll and hope some day we meet in the new millenium....aloha and peace.....forest What does community mean to a starving person? Not much, unless someone is willing to share food. This discussion has given me some insight into what I call "human rites." Sharing food, water, and shelter are likely the very first steps to community, the first moves toward conscious connection with each other, the first human rites. Beyond these basics, which are not unique to the human species, are many other communal activities which are unique celebrations of human consciousness. Try the questions below -- once our basic survival needs are met, how do we interact with each other, what do we cultivate in our community, who are we? Emma Please answer any of the questions in as little or as much detail as you like. Feel free to send this survey to anyone you think might enjoy it. The results may be included in Human Rites: Creating a Zestful Life by Emma Mominee Cornell, Ph.D. Thank you, Emma Since the beginning of time, people have engaged in celebratory activities that create a sense of connection and unity. These "human rites" revitalize our spirits and reawaken our roots in village life. We all like to have fun with other people, to break out of our daily routine, to uplift our spirits. Today, human rites are often commercialized, trivialized, distorted, or denied, leaving many people feeling empty and disconnected. Reclaiming our human rites transforms our communities and enriches our lives. Human rites relieve stress, increase joy, and deepen wisdom. Know your Human Rites! 1) Where do you most often feel a sense of belonging, of community? When do you feel most disconnected from community, or most alone? 2) Do you love your work? What kind of community do you find at work? 3) How do stories, songs, or poems help you relate to others? 4) How do you make eating and drinking together more meaningful? 5) When and how have you experienced communal grief or mourning? 6) How has the practice of visual arts, handicrafts, or artisan skills, like woodworking or gardening, brought the people you know closer together? 7) How do games bring people together? What games work best for you? 8) Does music play a special role in your life? How does music touch you? Do you have friends who share musical interests? Do you play together? 9) What kind of singing or chanting do you enjoy? When and where do you join your voice with others? 10) How do parades, ceremony, concerts, festivals, theatre, or drama help to define your community? 11) What has been your experience with dancing in a group, such as folk, ethnic, modern, or freestyle? Do you drum, or dance with drummers? 12) Do you enjoy wearing a uniform, costume, logo, id tag, mask, or other bodily decorations? Do you feel more connected to a group this way? 13) What role can children play in community events and celebrations? 14) What have you learned from older people about how live a good life in community with others? What have the elders taught by example? 15) What gatherings, celebrations or festivities do you most enjoy? Why? 16) What is your experience of sitting in circle with other people, such as in 12-step programs, study groups, or other supportive contexts? 17) What benefits have you found in the practice of massage, grooming, or the laying on of hands? Do you have friends who share hugs easily? 18) Do you follow a particular spiritual tradition? What excites you about that tradition? What spiritual practices have been most satisfying to you? 19) In what teachings, in words, symbols, or example, do you find the greatest inspiration? How do these teachings put meaning into your life? 20) What sacraments, special acts or practices, do you find essential? 21) How do you spend time outdoors with your community? 22) What kind of indoor space does your community use? 23) How significant are plants, animals, or other natural elements to the life of your community? How do you celebrate the seasons? 24) What gives you the greatest sense of being at home? What is the most beautiful part of your community? 25) Describe your ideal of community life, whether in a rural village or an urban cooperative-- What would it be like? How would you contribute? Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions on human rites. If you feel I left anything out, please let me know. If you don't mind if I mention your name, please include a one line description of yourself by occupation, skills, or interests. Send any photos or slides of people engaged in human rites, noting time, place, and group. Please tell me if you wish to remain anonymous. Many Blessings, Emma For more information, or to support our work, please contact: Emma Mominee Cornell, Ph.D. P.O.Box 187 Auburn CA 95604-0187 (530) 346-7804 <mominee@nccn.net www.nccn.net/~asylum/rites/ Subject: august m2m

OPTIONAL TOPIC (SEX):the woman i met on the net at tantra.com has been here for over three months now, and since i suggested a couple issues back we talk about sex in relation to natural health i guess i better add some thoughts on the subject. after about 10 years of celibacy i must say i am out of practice and have had to humble the self in relation to my knowledge and experience on the subject. i have been studying my friends book, "jewel of the lotus" and i must say there is much more to sex and tantra that i have to investigate and learn than i previously imagined. it is possible that like searching for consensus natural family the search for consensus sexual tantric partner is somewhat of a big challenge most of us may not succeed with in just one lifetime, but i'm willing to stumble around with the process in between all the distractions life throws in front of us to see how serious we are. i am starting to think that only the wealthy brahmans of india had the free time to pursue such things because it takes a lotta free time and dicipline. i am going to keep tryin to figure it out at the pace that i can operate at and still maintain the homestead chores and projects. so far i have barely scratched the surface of the diciplines and exercises, but they do make sense to me and i feel they are worth the effort. not only is refining natural sex important to natural health but i am pretty convinced that without incorporating it into the subject of natural wellness our ability to extend life very far will be limited. in the past i approached tantra from a rather simple no ejaculation position and at one point years ago i achieved a high rate of success on that level. but now i am finding through reading and meditation that that is only the tip of the iceberg. as far as i understand so far the ultimate in tantra is to explore and investigate the sexual body, mind, spirit energy to reach a point where both partners reach orgasm at the same time and instead of refraining from ejaculation they transmute and maintain the energy that is normally lost in the male and female fluids and are able to sustain the orgasmic experience for longer and longer periods until they have complete control of orgasmic energy and at that point do not loose energy or even need a partner to experience it. life becomes an orgasmic spiritual experience. it is rather similar to eastern spiritual practices that lead to enlightenment but according to the authors of the book it requires less time with a partner and they also claim that many eatern religions distorted or kept tantra hidden from the masses so the elite spiritual leaders could dupe the masses into supporting them. based on limited experience and meditation so far i think they are correct in their approach but it is non the less a very difficult or challenging goal with the concept that, "many are called but few are chosen". i must admit that i do have some doubts about my own ability to achieve such a goal, but i am willing to spend quite a bit of time tryin and will no doubt continue as long as i live and beyond. finding a partner to pursue this type of sexuality with is no less of a chore either, and i feel blessed at having found someone willing to give it a try. we have both been busy and sidetracked a lot with the daily routines of basic survival but i think we are making some progress. we have had some of the typical relationship difficulties and have had a few tense and stressful moments when our friendship has been challenged but so far are able to get back on track after awhile. since we are coming from extreemly different lifestyles the challenge is a bit more difficult but i feel dispite that we are both trying hard to make it work/play. i have been building a greenhouse here to supply certain vegetables and melons that are stung by the fruitflies here if left to grow outside. it has been a big project but i finally got the roof on so i am thru the hard part i suspect. there are two women on the land right now besides me and we are having council twice a week to explore the intentional commmunity ideals in a consensus paradigm and so far it is moving slow and has been challenging but well worth the effort. MILLENIAL BASH: as far as the millenial bash tenetively planned here, i am still open to the event. one thing i forgot to mention relating to it is that i would require all who stay on the land to sign a release of liability form since i have no insurance. one other thought, at times i have only enough food here to feed me, depending on the weather and season, so keep that in mind. i could arrange to go out and obtain good quality organic food for the bash but it would be an added expense or individuals could arrange to get their own. BOB AVERY: i like the idea you have of making the m2m a quarterly publication, i think it would allow me more time to reply more carefully and thoroughly to it. i like your constant monitoring of my comments since i sometimes make bold statements that may be questionable. as far as who is my best friend you were quite right i had two at once which is flawed. i guess if we get one of each sex i will stick with the comments i made. if not, it's a toss up as to who it is. as far as your questioning on how i think love is more essential than food, what i meant is that for "optimum wellness" it would no doubt be a true statement. obviously we can perhaps live for decades with not much love but it no doubt shortens and reduces the quality of the experience. in our quest for optimum natural wellness, i would put it above food. as far as friends of mine who died from too much avocado, well i admit it's a bold unprovable statement, but for what it's worth in my opinion people who injest a lotta fats, oils, and mucus forming foods(even if organic and raw), loose vitality doing that and in some cases early death resulted, but i can't prove it. in relation to why would secret societies want to be secret, well look what happened to jesus when he went around spoutin off about how to live well, he got nailed to a cross. and what about all the other martyrs of his-story. could it be that somewhere along the way those who wanted to transcend martyrdom got together and said let's not have a martyr leader who gets killed which allows the bully to disipate the movement, so they went on to move undergroud with it in secret to prevent being burned at the stake or nailed to a cross, etc. makes perfect sense to me. i heard the "masons" back in the old days who built impressive cathedrals for the catholic church got tired of cheap wages and when they asked for more were told to forget it and so when they threatened to walk off the job were persecuted and after some time decided to secretly go underground and go beyond the pope in figuring out how god might operate.another way to see why secrets might make sense how about the analogy of childproof lighters, its a secret until the child is conscious enough to undertand the secret. it's not that they are unwilling to reveal the secret, they are just being careful to share it with those who are ready to be wise enough to use it wisely. as far as when did i last take a good fast, it's been a long while, thanks for reminding me of the good in it tho. as for aluminum, i haven't used any of the things you mentioned for many many years. as to your question about why out of body experiences stopped happening for me, well i think it was because my marriage and natural life in the country came to an end and my life was more hectic and unnatural after that. it has returned to more relaxed and natural in the last few years but still the element of a family spirit is missing, that's my rough quess anyway. as far as paul wilem, well i liked him a lot and invited him to join in our consensus experiment but he had commitments back on mainland. he has however recently returned to maui and is considering relocating in hawaii and setting up a practice somewhere here. he may visit me again soon. he is very interesting and knowledgeable regarding various health issues. he brought a brix meter with him and i found it a fasinating tool. as far as how much i charge for extra fruits i sell from the land, in general i charge around fifety cents a pound for almost everything, which is about half the price of commercial produce in the stores nearby.
LEO DUERSON: i enjoyed yer comments to me last issue, good points you made. most of the bash would be on location here i guess depending on the size of the group. in any event the outside activities would be optional. i'm a homebody like you and like living simply.
SUSAN MAZZOCCO: the last name greenwald means green forest in german so when i moved to hawaii back in 82 i decided to have the nickname forest since i identified with the back to nature movement and wanted a shorter name. your witty comment refering to greenworld was as usual quite witty, keep it up we need the good humor here. yes orchids grow wild here, plus there are lots of orchid hobbiests here who collect the rare varieties, don't know of any wild rare ones here tho there may be.
KENDALL BLACK: you are right kendall, there aren't many women interested in polyfidelity, as a matter of fact the movement is very small. i believe the reason it is still small is that it is another paradigm shift thing. women's lib offers women much freedom but now they will need to slowly explore equal responsibility in relation to living in nature. remember in the past men were the ones who always were the first to conquer new frontiers and have the women come latter, it may take a few gererations for liberated women to join in the front lines with "gentlmen" and explore equally the new age frontiers we are moving into. i understand that using the computer accesses the female side of the brain so it may be a major stride in achieving that balance. the word polyfidelity means to me anyway faithful to more than one, in the sense of extended family type family arrangements and being responsible for the children that might result from such a lifestyle. a more recent term polyamory may be more suitible for some. i do like the idea of being very dedicated and faithful in friendship and family matters to those i might have sex with. polyfidelity is not like swinging or casual sex, at least in my mind anyway. it is more related to spiritual sex.
HAROLD HOLLISTER: hey harold, how's it? i keep getting your forwarded emails but can only access about one outta four. so far the internet girlfriend thing is going pretty good, tho it will take time to see how well it lasts. i can relate to your having reservations about flying in jets, i feel the same way and have been avoiding them most of my life so far. i liked yer humor in relation to discussing the sex topic, but hey maybe it will open the pandora's box of health if you do discuss it openly. i suspect it is one of the more repressed issues we are all dealing with. in regards to your comments on how i percieve god, well i suspect we all have god restricted to some kinda limitation box or another due to our own limited perspective of how we think the universe operates. but at least i don't think of god as a he as harold seems to refer now and then. does harold really think somehow universal energy boils down to male energy? to be honest i don't think of god too much cause i know it is beyond me in this physical body to comprehend how this universe came into existence, matter of fact it is no doubt beyond time and space so the concept when or how it came into existance is already a flawed thought to "start" with. :-) believing in some kinda great spirit type god idea is not a gamble if we have experienced some type of extrasensory thing that goes beyond time and space. once that happens i think it is more of a gamble to ignore the god thing. to believe in(faith) and at the same time be searching for how it happened to me, that is all there is to the concept of god. it is all full of paradox and loopholes no doubt, so be careful but go for it. DEBBIE NELSON: good point about testing the wraping material too. the subject of how to relate naturally to animal pets is a very contriversial subject as i continually find here at the farm as i attempt to form a consensus family. it all relates to love, family, and security type issues, all of which we were unnaturally conditioned to believe a certain way.
AUDREY NEWCOMB: happy gardening......see my response to bob avery regarding avocados and dieing.
NICK PHILLIPS: i agree with you that all of us fail to live up to the golden rule ideal, but i suspect we are all moving in that direction to one degree or another and organized religion to one degree or another is a reminder for some to keep on keepin on with the goal. in answer to your questions regarding big brother priest, doctor, health book writer, aerobic activist etc. all i can say is no man or woman is an island and when we share our ideas, ideals, and knowledge and wisdom we all win win. if one is perfect(whatever that is) in health and mind and spirit perhaps one can sit somewhere and be above it all but me thinks we can all benefit from sharing ideas like the golden rule and such big brother/sister ideals with each other, even to those who appear to not be ready to walk the talk. plant the seed and wait for it to grow, some seeds take a long time to germinate. m2m is a good example of the positive side of big brother/sister sharing even tho i suspect none of us has all the answers, by sharing ideas we all benefit if we have an open mind.
GUESS WHO: welcome to the computer world and m2m writers world, i liked yer introduction, you seem like a down home good addition to our group. i like that you are a gardener even if in gravel, yer spirit speaks to me in a friendly way. my tantra friend takes commercial synthetic hormones so yer related commments sparked my interest, would like to learn more on the subject of natural hormones, know of any books or places to check out? i liked yer commments about sex, they remind me of how even the most liberated of us is still repressing so much from our childhood conditioning. your poem at the end was/is thought provoking and good for many to see, but let's not forget how "we" are all one at the same time and how we all affect each other in positive ways like the way your guess who has got me wonderin. why do you want us to "guess who", to prove to yourself who you are? just kidding of course. aloha ha from ha hawaii.
OPTIONAL TOPIC, HEALTH INSURENCE: forget it and spend all the time and money others might spend on health insurance and invest it in learning how to live naturally and how to overcome fear of death and other things. meditate on learning how to transcend fear and pain and if all else fails stop eating until you die in peace or the fear and pain goes away(startin to sound like bernarr here :-) ). easier said than done, hope i'm ready for that one when it comes. well, guess that wraps up a few thoughts for this time around, trust ya'll are feeling natural and well to some degree or another and trust m2m may add a degree or two to us all as time goes by. aloha and peace, forest

aloha all wellness freaks, er i mean folks, hope ya'll had a fruitfull and vegfull summer. i'm still gettin a few mangoes and pinneapples, etc. to keep me happy in the food scene. been a pretty quiet summer as usual, here alone at the moment tho visitors and partners will be arriving in oct. and nov. looks like y2k here may make for a more social winter scene this year with mainlanders seeking a warm climate in case there's a crash.
LEO DUERSON: enjoyed yer last issues comments to all, and yer stories of hawaii, car insurance has come down due to so many complaints here.
JR ELLIS: hey jr, i can relate to your greygirl stories and bonding ceremonies, i grew up with dogs napping and bonding as a child under the coffee table with the house dog. i remember how sad we all were when we heard my dad had to shoot her because she could no longer function well. and now as an adult i have learned to go wild with the cats in nature. some friends think i am neglectful of the animals here, but i tell them i am not their keeper, just a friendly neighbor who likes to interact with all wild life. i have five babies bouncing around the doorstep these days when i get up, if you want a new greygirl, i can introduce you to a few......aloha
REX HARRILL: hey rex, i think you have a good idea to write a simple easy to understand nh intro book, perhaps there is some way we can get together to do it. i suspect bernarr would have the most condensed version. perhaps the m2m is already such an ongoing dialog book of nh options, downhome everday people sharing their mistakes and discoveries in wellness.
HAROLD HOLLISTER: the god within eh, well seems to me if there is this concept of god then chances are he/she/it is within and without and here there everywhere. the fact that you refer to god as he is old god conditioning don't ya think? perhaps god is whatever our expanded or unexpanded mind can dream up. in that case go for the big picture and have faith and hope that you are correct. even if wrong you will have something inspiring to live for unlike some i know. even the most atheistic individual will probably admit there are some unknowns that may be usefull to seek out or experiment with in strange mysterious or mystical ways.
CLARY MICHEIL-SMITH: for the sake of optimum natural wellness, i pray we all have the opportunity and space to grow our own food and spirit someday in a most natural setting.
LEA MARRA: hey, collards, kale, and other cabbage family are high in calcium. ps. at 72 you are not the worst example of hygiene, those died younger. your humbleness will increase your longevity nodoubt.
VERONICA: hey, hope yer settled in a bit now, i know the stress of instability.
SUSAN MAZZOCCO: talk is cheap, because words are free. :) remember when the beatles said, "the best things in life are free, but you can keep em for the birds and bees, just give me money, that's what i want, etc..........anyway it's true i think the best things in life are free, yet today money rules.....how sad that the richest people in the world steal macadamia nuts.......speaking of nuts, i liked yer corny jokes, yer a vegan comedian to fill us up with leafy green laughter......yer comments on the skytrails was a bit alarming, had heard of it on art bell radio and also had a neighbor right here who claims he saw the same plane and trail here???? enjoyed yer comments on gardening.
AUDREY NEWCOMB: i know how you feel about big water bills and drought, we are just now beginning to come out of a real long one here. in regards to yer comments to susan last issue regarding nh community pursuits, keep in mind there are many options and choices to look into that can accomodate and protect everyone involved. it is up to the members involved to insure protection thru careful organization and planning. it should always offer more than living in traditional society, the only thing getting in the way is depending on a big brother instead of the consensus of our peers. you say people are never like-minded about everything and that is even more true with our current neighbors, how bout refining the process with covenants like organic gardening etc. where there is a will there is a way.
NICK PHILLIPS: hey nick, yer reference to john stauber last issue reminds me of another health tip i recieved in email about him, seems he's a new age ralph nader type. the most interesting part of that info for me was the name was same as an old friend from back in my wisconsin homesteader days. so just by chance i emailed john and asked are you by chance the same john as i knew back in wisconsin 20 or so years ago and sure enough i found a needle in a hay stack right in cyberspace and now in m2m, guess the world is getting smaller all the time. in regards to yer comments last issue on conditioning i agree with a lot of what you were sayin but i feel i need to defend the "old time" religion to a degree. it appears to me that traditional religion is necessary for most of the masses since they are still in the follow the leader or big brother modality. the saving grace of most traditional religions is that they all have the golden rule as a foundational guide. that to me is the good side of traditional religion, "god" knows there is downside. if one is a hermit with no major social group to relate to, it also can represent serious limitations or self imposed conditioning very similar to organized religion because our own isolated viewpoints and egos become conditioned over time